Introduction
A few of you sent me an email about the Hamilton San Diego presale (THANKS A LOT BTW!) Sure enough, the play is using TM verified fan. Unfortunately, it ended yesterday. My bad. I forgot when the end date was, and tbh, I was indifferent on whether to post it or not (consider this a ticket reselling unicorn.)
Reselling these
The SD Broadway group seem to be very anti-reseller. I know of a person who bought a season Broadway pass that was cancelled by them because he didn’t live in San Diego, because you know, there aren’t such things as airplanes. Even when you go the main Hamilton page on their site, you can read a couple of warnings:
CONSUMER WARNING: Broadway/San Diego, San Diego Theatres and Ticketmaster are the only OFFICIAL TICKETING PROVIDERS for Broadway/San Diego events. Tickets obtained from other unauthorized sources may be stolen, counterfeit or invalid and may not be honored. Tickets Purchased from other sources are often inflated in price and not eligible for assistance if tickets are lost, stolen or in the event the show is cancelled or rescheduled. Broadway/San Diego is not responsible for tickets purchased from other sources
And then this too:
PLEASE NOTE: Reselling tickets is not authorized by Broadway/San Diego. Tickets that have been resold will be cancelled without notice and denied access to the theatre.
What to do
Now I don’t know if it’s just a scare tactic or if they plan on checking ID’s for the show, but this won’t be as easy as NY, LA, or Chicago. I think the best way to play this is when you list these on Stubhub (because for sure they aren’t going to let you resale or transfer on Ticketmaster,) then don’t list the seat numbers (that’s optional on SH.) That way, they can’t track you down. Granted they could ask Stubhub for all the sellers’ email addresses, but I don’t think SH has to legally give that to them (I’m guessing NO since that’s an invasion of privacy.) Do I plan on still making a play on these? Heck yeah! I think the risk reward is still very good on this one. I think worst case, SH refunds the buyer, and either SD refunds your tickets or you file a chargeback for not receiving what you paid for – entry to Hamilton SD. Good luck everyone.
I can’t imagine IDs checked at the door. Imagine all the people who have schedules change that give away their tickets for free to relatives. Or people who buy 8 tickets for their extended family and go in separate cars having to be herded. I imagine people would throw a fit which the media could catch wind of. Not a good look for the show. Thoughts?
Yeah, that won’t happen. They would have to specifically say so when selling them to you.
Seasoned top seller with StubHub here. I wouldn’t recommend filing chargebacks with Ticketmaster. You probably won’t be successful, and you might end up getting blacklisted from TM (review T&Cs). Needless to say, I’ll be making a play for these as well. Got 2 codes in the bank.
What do you reco to do in that case?
Hard to say. What I recommend for tomorrow is getting hard tickets if possible (Hamilton did standard mail for Chicago shows) because there is no way for the venue to know at the door which tickets were resold and which weren’t. Even if it’s only PAH or Mobile, 99% chance they don’t check IDs at the door to match the name on the PAH ticket. So, I wouldn’t worry too hard about it. Buy buy buy.
If I do “buy” some tix, should I get hard copy or get electronic?
I feel like the interest in Hamilton is starting to fall off. I didn’t sell the tickets I had for last weekend in L.A. until a few days before and had to drop the price multiple times.
People are still buying tix for Hamilton. We had a couple that couldn’t go with us to the show last Friday. I posted the tix 3 hours before showtime and sold it within 30 mins. Made $14 profit. Obviously not great for reselling, but nice to recoup the “lost” money. Sat next to the couple that bought them and he said he had been trying to buy tix all day for $300+… i could have sold them for more, but wanted to make sure to get money back.
I’ll play a little devil’s advocate here – purely a thought experiment.
They clearly state this: “Tickets obtained from other unauthorized sources may be stolen, counterfeit or invalid and may not be honored.”
Resellers are unauthorized sources. So they have every right to not honor those tickets at the gate.
At the time of purchase, you agreed to those terms. If ‘YOU’ did not try to ‘enter’ the show and someone else did (to whom you resold tickets in an unauthorized manner) and that someone else was not allowed, then who is at fault – you or SD Broadway?
If it’s your fault (for not following the terms), then you are not ‘entitled’ to a charge back even though the cc company may eventually give you your money back.
It’s like booking an airline ticket in your name, selling it to someone else and then filing a charge back when that other person was not allowed to ‘enter the airplane’.
Shrug!
Sounds like someone isn’t familiar with the First Sale Doctrine.
Also, since the tickets were originally purchased from an ‘authorized source’ (Ticketmaster), they’re entirely valid and must be honored. Theaters know this.
Thanks Cameron.. totally familiar with first sale doctrine…
So, for example, if you buy a brand new Nike shoe from the Nike store and are unable to list it as ‘New’ on the Amazon website for reselling, is Amazon inflicting on the ‘first sale doctrine’? Can it be sued for it? Genuinely trying to understand.
Also, why are airline tickets treated differently? Can I not resell the ticket I got from the airline website under the same principle?
Amazon is a private company that may set its own terms and conditions for sellers on its website. You know that because you were asking the question rhetorically. Don’t be a smartass. You haven’t scored any points. Amazon does not prevent me from reselling new Nikes elsewhere, but rather just on their private platform.
Nikes, airline tickets and theater tickets are all different beasts with entirely different considerations. There’s no sense in bringing up other types of goods because we’re talking about theater tickets, NOT airline tickets or Nikes. You may think they’re useful as a thought exercise for illustration purposes, but you’re really just distracting from the topic at hand, which is theater tickets.
My last post on this.
First sale doctrine is US law – your response seems to suggest platforms can set rules which go beyond the law (not true).
You resorted to defensive tactics. I ‘thought’ you were an expert on the first sale doctrine when you brought it up, and genuinely wanted to understand why it’s scope would not apply to other items. Obviously, you are shooting in the dark and choosing to apply the doctrine ‘at your convenience’. Nothing to learn here from you, so moving on.
Stop name-calling (‘smartass’), and try to learn something everyday. I never questioned your response of the first sale doctrine not applying to theater tickets. I was trying to understand what makes them unique. Obviously, you don’t know.
Dear god, you are such a f***ing idiot!
Platforms can set their own rules. First sale doctrine apples to companies trying to prevent private parties from reselling goods, but certain platforms can absolutely ban reselling of certain items as they see fit. That practice does not violate the doctrine because private parties are free to meet in person to perform the transactions. Clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about.